The new Fiesta and Focus ST we don't get are available with an automatic

"dogisbadob" (dogisbadob) 08/17/2019 at 09:45 • Filed to: None

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I already knew that the Mk4 Focus and Mk7 Fiesta come with a real torque converter automatic, but I didn’t know the new ST’s were available with automatic too .

They would’ve been an even bigger success than the manual-only Fist and Fost we got.

Still, Ford is stupid for not selling them here (both ST and non-ST). They can import the Focus and Fiesta from Germany. They’d sell better than their predecessors.

They should be forced to swap in a torque converter auto to replace every PowerShit on the road. And the EPA should give them a 10-mpg penalty.

Ford wouldn’t DARE install a DCT Po werShit in an Explorer, Edge, Mustang, or F150. The US-market Ecosport uses a real automatic.

mazda616 > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 10:18

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I’d get laughed off of Oppo for it, but I’d look into a Focus ST with a normal automatic.

Svend > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 10:20

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We only get the Focus ST in manual here in the U.K. but we do get the Focus ST in estate form so it’s about equal.

dogisbadob > Svend 08/17/2019 at 10:22

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oooo orange

dogisbadob > mazda616 08/17/2019 at 10:23

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Yup! I’m sure a lot of people would buy an automatic ST! 

jimz > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 10:25

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Still, Ford is stupid for not selling them here (both ST and non-ST). They can import the Focus and Fiesta from Germany. They’d sell better than their predecessors.

and they might as well strap $3,000 onto the hoods of every one of them. if the Fiesta is unsustainable here as it is being built in Mexico, on what planet would importing them from Germany be profitable?

DipodomysDeserti > mazda616 08/17/2019 at 10:32

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This is why we can’t have nice things.

dogisbadob > jimz 08/17/2019 at 10:38

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Ford still imports the Transit Connect from Spain, which carries a 25% tariff. The Transit Connect is Ford’s biggest money loser. They got caught trying to cheat by importing them as passenger vans then stripping the interior. The feds caught them and made them pay the full 25% tax. Ford appealed but lost.

If they can import the Spanish Transit Connect, a low-volume seller with a heavy tariff attached, they can import the much higher selling Focus and Fiesta from Germany with no excuses. And the tariff for cars is only 2.5%

Small cars with working transmission sell just fine.

Svend > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 10:41

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It’s called Orange Fury.

Much nicer than the Orange Glow of the Ford Focus Active.

The Orange Fury looks slightly different under different lights.

duurtlang > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 10:52

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Base price of the Focus ST in Germany is €33k. With 19% VAT removed, 2.5% import duties added and converted to USD that’s about $31.5 k USD. What did the old one sell for?

dogisbadob > Svend 08/17/2019 at 10:59

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both are awesome

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > mazda616 08/17/2019 at 11:01

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Would you prefer a torque converter over a hypothetical good DCT in a ST (not implying that you imagine it with a PDK, just not the PoWeRsHiFt)? And is there any reason you wouldn’t choose the manual ST outside of personal preference. In my personal opinion  torque converters belong where tea does. 

dogisbadob > duurtlang 08/17/2019 at 11:03

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about 25-30k. The Mk3 Focus was made in the US, except the RS, which was imported from Germany.

The Fiesta was made in Mexico, including the ST

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > mazda616 08/17/2019 at 11:08

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I’d absolutely love a Focus ST with a torque converter automatic.

Under_Score > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 11:14

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You still get a car that appeals to former UAW employees only, though, or people who insist their car must be an American make.  The Corolla, the Civic, and even cars like the Sentra are still much better than the Focus. The performance aspect would be neat, but that doesn’t take away from the mediocrity. They came in nice colors, though. 

dogisbadob > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/17/2019 at 11:14

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Torque converter automatics have gotten very good to the point where you don’t need to put up with the DCT’s weird shit that feels like Donald Trump trying to drive a stick, which is fitting since Detroit’s management competence is on par with Trump’s.

The DSG/PDK isn’t without issues, either. And they’re probably still not as smooth as the ZF 8-speed, for example.

Honda makes a DCT with a torq ue converter. It’s better than the PowerShit and DSG, but still not as good as a real automatic. It’s used in the ILX and TLX

dogisbadob > Under_Score 08/17/2019 at 11:20

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Almot all the mediocrity was from the Powershit though!

The manual ones are well-liked and have few problems

Under_Score > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 11:21

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They had small interiors and weren’t as well equipped as competitors, especially in the later years. I still don’t understand how they sold so many. 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > dogisbadob 08/17/2019 at 11:24

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Now I just have more questions, mostly about the torque converted Honda DCT, especially it being better than the DSG which I have heard is quite nice . And while I have heard the ZF8 speed is one of the best, I feel that is an exceptional case as it stands so far above other torqcon transmissions. Also (at least in my opinion) anything that ‘should’ have a manual, such as a stiffly sprung  hot hatch, likely doesn’t prioritize smoothness as much as other applications like a dodge charger 

dogisbadob > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/17/2019 at 12:00

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The difference is that a hot hatch is still expected to handle daily driving with no problem. So smoothness is still as much a priority for the hot hatch as it is for the Charger. Therefore, the torque converter is still the better choice.

With a DCT, you have to use the paddles to get anything decent out of them. Leaving it in D and driving it like a regular automatic is where you get the problems. Shudder at low speeds, and it has to slip the clutches to avoid stalling. From this, you can see why a DCT with no paddles is stupid.

I’m still not sure about the DSG since it is still VW, not known for their superior engineering and reliability. And they do still suffer low-speed shudder, even if it’s not as bad as Ford.

Torqcons other than the ZF8 are still very good, even if not absolutely at the top like the ZF. Aisin and GM make very good automatics, too. Absolutely no reason to tolerate DCT problems in any car that can reasonably be expected to be a daily driver.

GM made a mistake using a DCT in the C8. It will not perform well in the conditions most Corvettes are driven. GM makes good automatics, no reason to go DCT. It should’ve gotten the ZF 8-speed. Save the DCT for the Z06/ZR1 or whatever hot model they make.

Even fucking Fiat , Fix it again, Tony. Wasn’ t that stupid. They used a DCT for the first year of the 500L but quickly switched back to an Aisin auto after only one year.

In regards to Honda’s torque converter DCT:
Honda’s R&D site

SAE paper

duurtlang > Under_Score 08/17/2019 at 13:22

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Strange. In Europe, without the UAW and without the ‘domestic’ label on the Fords, the Focus (the normal non-ST one) was a best seller and was also loved by the press. The Corolla/Auris was seen as a  noncompetitive also-ran and didn’t sell even close to Focus numbers. The Civic had even worse sales numbers, but unlike Toyota, Honda hasn’t been a mainstream (volume) manufacturer in Europe since roughly 2 decades.

Best selling cars in Europe in 2017, so the last full calendar year of the previous gen Focus (and Fiesta):

Ford Fiesta: Rank #5
Ford Focus: Rank #8
Toyota Auris (/Corolla): Rank #46
Honda Civic: Rank #91

Source: https://focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars-2017/

mazda616 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/17/2019 at 15:42

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I’d choose it because my commute is pure stop and go traffic and idling. I’d never be able to enjoy the manual, anyway.

kirkm76 > Under_Score 08/17/2019 at 16:01

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Because some of us like to drive our cars, not sit and count dots on Consume Reports while marveling at how soft the dash is.

And no. If you need a slushbox  buy something else. Shift the gears as God intended in a hot hatch.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > mazda616 08/17/2019 at 16:25

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I’m not disagreeing with you, I think that more transmission options are always good so people who would prefer an automatic have a higher likelihood of something fun to drive vs a CRV (just buy a van), but I’ve always found I like manual the most in traffic, more control, less braking. But that’s subjective 

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > duurtlang 08/17/2019 at 17:40

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It depended on the trim. Europe didn’t get the stripper trims we had, so it was probably comparable to mine, minus the only option I added (aside from the package): $30,700. The EU spec ones get a bunch of additional goodies as options that we don’t get because everyone loves pawning stripped garbage off on people in the Americas. The Canadians only got the top trim offered in the Americas  for some reason.

Scott Brown > dogisbadob 08/18/2019 at 12:08

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I guess this means that Ford is not interested in the enthusiast buyer. Originally, an ST emblem on the back meant “performance engine, sport tuned suspension, possibly Recaro seats and absolutely a MANUAL gearbox”. Those two letters told me everything I needed to know about what that vehicle had to offer me. I’m not feeling the tingle when I see an Explorer ST. If Ford needs me to translate the emotion. It’s kind of like when I see an attractive woman. I might think, “ gee I hope my aftershave is still working?” But , when I see an overweight, baby momma in yoga pants sporting a “Sexy life” tattoo, none of that happens.

dogisbadob > Scott Brown 08/18/2019 at 12:18

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Ford isn’t interested in any buyer except the F150 customers. They reluctantly tolerate the Mustang because of the huge brand value, but otherwise, Ford gets PISSED when anyone dare ask about anything other than the F150

Here is their new logo

Scott Brown > Under_Score 08/18/2019 at 12:24

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Most of us are not raising the Brady Bunch. We don't need three rows and overhead video screens. Some of us have actually removed the back seat altogether and installed a flat cargo floor! That way, we can carefully choose the one available passenger and tell everyone else to get an Uber.